Becoming Fearless
Welcome to Becoming Fearless, the personal growth podcast for YOU if you are ready to overcome fear and step into your greatness.
Our purpose is to help you overcome your limits and have loads of fun along the way, unlocking your fullest potential in life, business, health and relationships every single day.
I'm your host Charlotte Carter, a high performance coach and entrepreneur, with over 20 years experience. I've supported many highly driven talented people like you who dream big and are ready to take action to overcome what’s holding them back.
Each week my guests and I will be sharing hacks and habits on how to build self belief, courage and confidence to master your mindset and navigate your emotions - so that you reach your human potential in a way that feels light, fun and easeful and help you become fearless.
Let’s go!
Becoming Fearless
16. When Fear Keeps You Sick with Maria Indermühle
*** TRIGGER WARNING: This episode mentions suicide. If you would prefer not to listen to this part, please skip the minute from 15m20s to 16m20s. Thanks and take care of yourself. ***
Have you ever been told it's all in your head when you knew deep down it wasn't? Maria Indermühle, an extraordinary hope coach for those with Multiple Sclerosis, joins me on a captivating episode where she shares her inspiring story of battling misdiagnosis, embracing self-advocacy, and harnessing a positive mindset.
We explore the connection between fear and well-being, and Maria's courageous journey of questioning medical advice to embrace life-changing lifestyle shifts.
You will hear about the strength of Maria's spirit as she tells of her empowering ascent up a mountain and how her husband's unyielding support was her cornerstone through the darkest times. She also gives us a sneak peek into her coaching philosophy, the promise of functional medicine, and her upcoming endeavours designed to spread her message of hope and health.
CONNECT WITH MARIA
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/first_food_first
Website: https://firstfoodfirst.com
Maria's book recommendation: The Biology Of Belief by Bruce Lipton
CONNECT WITH CHARLOTTE
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Welcome to Becoming Fearless, the personal growth podcast for you if you are ready to overcome fear and step into your greatness. Our purpose is to help you overcome your limits, have loads of fun along the way, unlocking your fullest potential in life, business, health and relationships every single day. I'm your host, charlotte Carter, a high performance coach and entrepreneur with over 20 years experience. I'm your host, charlotte Carter, a high-performance coach and entrepreneur with over 20 years experience. I've supported many highly driven, talented people like you who dream big and are ready to take action to overcome what's holding them back. Each week, my guests and I will be sharing hacks and habits on how to build self-belief, courage and confidence, to master your mindset and navigate your emotions so that you can reach your human potential in a way that feels light, fun and easeful and helps you become fearless. Let's go.
Speaker 1:Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of Becoming Fearless. I am really excited this is a guest episode and we were just chatting before we came live about what we're going to call this episode, because it is a fascinating journey, a fascinating topic and I wanted to be really clear on what you're going to get from this episode. So, if you're listening, the episode is going to be called when Fear Keeps you Sick. That is a bold title, so keep listening to tune into what that story is really about. I have got a friend, a really lovely friend of mine, on as a guest today, and we have been probably known each other for maybe three years now, and let me just let Maria introduce herself. Who you are and what is it that you do now for a living.
Speaker 2:Okay, thank you, Charlotte. Thank you for inviting me today. It's lovely to be here. So, yeah, I'm Maria Maria Ndermule and I'm a hope coach. I'm a hope coach for multiple sclerosis. I'm a hope coach for MS. With MS, I've been given that diagnosis myself and I support courageous individuals that have been given this diagnosis to make sense of it and to do something about it. To make sense of it and to do something about it and to approach it positively with diet and lifestyle so that they can feel and function better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how awesome is that? I mean a hope coach. I love that title. I love that title. I love that title. I love that title. Um, let's go right back to well, let tell people a little bit about your what brought you to doing this work, or tell people a little bit about how you got to your diagnosis. Where do you want to start?
Speaker 2:um, I guess I can start at the beginning, when I fell madly in love with my Swiss husband. I considered that to be the start of it all and it was a whirlwind of romance. It led me to Switzerland because I'm originally from the highlands of Scotland and I left that to follow my heart because I fell in love. And when I arrived here I could feel my body close down in me. I actually started having symptoms of MS. At our wedding, when we were dancing, I could feel pins and needles rushing down my spinal cord, but I didn't give it much thought at the time. But when I arrived in Switzerland, that's when things became more severe, like they were getting worse, and I also felt that my body was closing down, in that it felt as if somebody had poured cement down my spinal cord. So you can imagine what that would feel like. I felt like I was becoming more and more rigid and it was really scary.
Speaker 2:I also couldn't concentrate on the French lessons because I was in the French speaking part. I had to learn French and I was developing anxiety attacks, something I hadn't done before and I went to the doctor and sadly I was dismissed. And anyone that knows me, it's not something I appreciate. You know I like to be taken seriously and to be seen and heard. So to be dismissed like this, it didn't sit well with me. And he said I was depressed because you know I had left my home country and you know I knew that wasn't true. You know, I knew that. So I started researching my own symptoms and eventually I discovered what I appeared to have sounded like MS. So I went back to the doctor and I asked to be referred to a neurologist and it was the neurologist that confirmed my suspicion. I was given the diagnosis of MS.
Speaker 1:And so from that let's just talk through a little bit of that, because we're talking about becoming fearless. That let's just talk through a little bit of that, because we're talking about becoming fearless you are, you know, hugely fearless in so many ways in this pursuit of your own health. You knew that you weren't depressed. You knew you'd followed your love, you'd moved to switzerland, you've got a great relationship, all of that was going well. It wasn't any of that, and you started to unpick what was going on in your body and research. These symptoms came to this place where somebody said you're depressed and that you were like, no, I'm not. And then you were brave enough, courageous enough, to go back into the same sort of environment that said you were depressed and say this is what I feel I've got now Can you take this forward? How do you think you got your grit and determination then to be able to go back? What was it? That is your drive, do you think at that stage, that's a really good question, charlotte.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I've always been one that was curious, yeah, and I never.
Speaker 2:I was always the one that was asking the questions, you know, and I often, when I think back in my childhood, I was always asking the questions that nobody seemed to be able to answer. And you know, that's exactly what happened here in the medical setting when I was given diagnosis. It would appear that when they gave me the diagnosis, along with the terrifying prognosis, I started asking the questions that no medical professional could answer. And it's interesting how you use the words there, and thank you for saying them, because just you saying them, I was like, oh my goodness, yes, I was, wasn't I? I kind of just reaffirmed that to myself. You mentioned the word bravery and courage, and I know you studied positive psychology, as have I, and we know they are part of the character strengths and, interestingly enough, you know I wasn't aware at the time that that's what I was using, but on reflection, that's what I was tapping into without even being aware of it. So, yes, I always had those character strengths, I think, and I used them, and sometimes in my life, but on this occasion it required me more so to do it and I was never one to take no for an answer. I always seemed to ask the questions that nobody could answer. And the other thing is curiosity was one of my character strengths that I discovered later, and it's interesting because I always was made to feel growing up that I was stubborn, and I used to grow up with a complex thinking that I was wrong to be so stubborn because I asked the questions that nobody could answer. But in actual fact, I wasn't being stubborn, I was being curious. You know, I was asking the questions that I needed to get answers to if I wanted to focus on wellness and not illness, like everything the neurologist was saying to me Charlotte, I did not want that to be my life because they were saying it was a progressive disease, it was progressive decline, it would get progressively worse, there was no cure for it and my head was ready to explode. I was like, wait a minute here, this is too much. Like I was looking for the door, you know, but anytime I asked a question they didn't seem to be able to answer it. So, you know, I remember at one time just feeling like tapping into my intuition and thinking okay, instead of focusing on progressive decline. I need to focus on progressive health. I needed to change the narrative of this story because I knew that all this fear that was projected onto me wasn't just going to make me sick, it was going to keep me sick.
Speaker 2:And I think, in a medical setting and when a diagnosis is given, you know the person themselves that are coming into a medical setting looking for answers. They're already experiencing their body breaking down or doing things they never knew it to do and then to be told such negative um diagnoses and prognoses. It's fear-based and they are only doing their job. We can be so grateful for the medical profession and they don't want to be seen to be given false hope, but when all for hope is good is removed from you, that's, I think, a dangerous thing as well, you know, and health starts with hope. So, yeah, your question is where did that come from? I think it was. It was always in me, charlotte, and it was always kind of suppressed. I was like, stop asking so many questions. But on this occasion I needed to ask those questions and it turns out not many people could answer them. But then just because they couldn't answer them didn't mean I couldn't get any answers, I would just find them somewhere else, which I did.
Speaker 1:And so let the listeners know, because it's such a powerful story and anybody listening now maria is like in great shape. She walks the swiss alps most mornings and she has, you know, a real appetite for life and practices as a hope coach. So tell people a little bit about this kind of journey, from this first being really fearful, being uh in that situation where you're given this diagnosis, you're given this uh prognosis, which doesn't sound wonderful.
Speaker 2:Um, everything sounds very full-on and in the moment, what, we, what were your kind of symptoms there, and and what happened next yeah, the thing is, ms is horrific, debilitating disease and I seem to have a radar now, charlotte, for being able to spot in a crowd somebody who is displaying the symptoms. I can just, you know, I feel drawn to them. I can see it in the way they walk, the way they carry themselves. I'm like, oh, they have MS. I just can, totally, I feel like I'm drawn to them. It's like a magnet. I can spot the signs a mile away.
Speaker 2:And I got to a place where I had no feeling from my chin down at my sickest, charlotte, no feeling from my chin down, and my darling husband, like where would I be without my husband? I know I wouldn't be here. He was spoon feeding little, I can't talk. He was spoon feeding me and even just saying that again, it just takes me right back to that place. And so, yeah, no hope was given to me that you only medication to slow down the progression of the disease. But in my heart I knew this could not be it. I refused to believe it, charlotte, and I guess this is where the curiosity comes in again and the love of learning and the bravery and the courage that I didn't actually know I had at the time. But I think it's certainly something I did have. That came at the right time to help me.
Speaker 2:And you know, I was sent home to rearrange it to accommodate a wheelchair. But the thing is, I just got married and a wheelchair was not on my vision board. And you know the neurologist, he was just doing his job and I just could not accept what he was saying. And you know, within the MS community there's a lot of emphasis on accepting your diagnosis. And I never have and again, maybe that comes from being a bit stubborn, but I've acknowledged it. I've acknowledged I have been given this diagnosis but I've never accepted it, because to me it would be like accepting something is almost as if you can't do anything about it when I can do so much about this.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I was in a dark place and there's no doubt about it, a very dark place and there's no doubt about it, a very dark place. But I remember one night, my husband and I, we went to bed and you know it got to the stage that I couldn't even turn in the bed, charlotte, he had to move me because I had no feeling. And that's the thing when you lose feeling in your body, you can't even turn yourself over on the bed, like it was almost unimaginable. I'd never experienced this before and I just realized I was so young that when we just got married that this wasn't, you know, a life for my husband, he hadn't, hadn't signed up for it, and I had said to him that I would like to take Exit and of course Exit is the Swiss assisted suicide and it was because I loved him so much and I remember that night I couldn't feel his touch, but I could feel his love, could feel his love.
Speaker 2:And the next morning, when I thought I would phone exit, I had the first feeling in my fingertips, first feeling, and that's when I realised I will discard the thought of doing anything like that that I was going to be, be okay. And I remember saying to my husband you see that mountain right in front of us, I'm going to walk up it now. At the time I couldn't walk to the bathroom, but here I was saying that I would walk up this mountain and you know, I think that saved me as well. You know, I think love is medicine. I proved that, um, and I think love needs to replace fear, and I think that's what happened that day as well. Love replaced fear, and it was that love that took me from where I was to where I ultimately wanted to be with my health. And you know, a few months after that I walked up that mountain, and still do, and it's a thousand meters high.
Speaker 1:So much love for you.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you. Sometimes I think, oh, my goodness, did that really really happen? And yet it did, and I'm so grateful for it I am. It was terrible at the time that I you know I got through it.
Speaker 1:I've got all a bit emotional now. So let's talk about this phenomenal inner resilience that you have and what were the steps you took? Because I'm sure you know, as this episode goes out and more and more people start listening to Becoming Fearless, this episode is going to resonate with the people who've got that diagnosis for certain and they'll be there thinking, okay, maria, well, what, what did you do so you had this moment, this like aha moment, this energy shift, this space where you started to feel small feelings in your fingers, where everything started to change, where love was a big part, your inner grit and determination was a huge part, curiosity was a huge part. What were the practical changes that you made in that moment, or in those three, six, nine months after that allowed you to physically repair the mobility of your body, to get you up walking that mountain?
Speaker 2:wow, that's a really good question, charlotte.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there were several things.
Speaker 2:Um, I think, first and foremost, without a ninth of a diet, I knew what I needed my health for, and I consider that to be so, so, so, so critical. Before we make any changes to our diet and lifestyle, we need to know why we're doing this, what are we doing it for, and you know what my why was? Well, I just got married to a man I loved. I was in this new foreign country, and so I think a person needs to know what they need their health for and they need to know their why. I think that's key and I was forever tapping into that. Um, I was very, very clear on that, and it was that that enabled me then to make the changes to my diet and lifestyle, because I did change my entire life. Like, um, like before, when I was living back home in the UK, I was a real sugar monster. Um, and, and all of a sudden, all that had to go. I knew that it was just exasperating the disease progression. Like I was told, it was a progressive disease and it would mean progressive decline, and I knew intuitively that eating all these sugars and we're not going to help matters, even though when I did ask the neurologist should I change my diet, they actually told me it wouldn't make a difference, which saddens me greatly, and I really hope that has changed, because it has made such a massive impact on how I feel and function, to the extent that if I were to eat gluten now, I get numbness in my fingertips, like I feel it immediately, and I feel that you know the the taste of health is better than any pizza. So that I'm clear off, I do.
Speaker 2:I do not want to ever go back to where I was and I feel I could quite easily do that if I'm complacent and if I am not 100%. You know clear on my why. I could easily have a wobble, because I'm human and sometimes I do have a wobble. You know we go through emotions, especially as women. I can sometimes have a wee hormonal wobble. I think, oh, I'll just eat that chocolate biscuit. Well, the next day I pay for it and I might struggle to walk, or so I've really, I really know my body now.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I would say the first thing was the why, what I needed my health for, and the other thing that helped greatly was changing my diet and lifestyle. Um, and the other thing was moving my body, and it was the very, very thing. That was the hardest thing to do, because when I lost the feeling of it I had to come back, and that I had to swallow my pride because I would have to hold on to my husband. And I forced myself to go mountain, and that was a big achievement for me. I'll never forget it. It was just and I realized wow, but what's interesting about walking up a mountain?
Speaker 2:The other thing is, I would say, is visualization. I really started to embrace and practice visualization and like because, see, when I had no feeling for my chin down, there was nothing I could do other than think. I couldn't even hold a pen. I remember I had to learn how to write again. So when you're sitting there and you can't do nothing, all you've got are your thoughts. So I had to make sure that they were positive ones.
Speaker 2:So I was sitting in the kitchen table looking at the mountain opposite me, and I would, every day for several hours because it's all I could do other than watch the TV, and there wasn't much on that I would visualize myself walking up the mountain and it was as if I was doing it.
Speaker 2:I remember I could feel what it would feel like to have the rock under my foot. I remember pretending what it would feel like to have the rock under my foot. I remember pretending what it would feel like to be holding the walking poles. I remember hearing the noise of the cable car going over my head and smelling the pine trees. It was as if I was there. And you know, since then I've been following Dr David Hamilton and he's a fellow Scotty and he speaks about this beautifully and brilliantly that imagining yourself better that when you do that the brain can't decipher whether it's real or not. As far as my brain was thinking that day, when I was imagining myself walking up the mountain, my brain and body thought I was. And I understand now what happened those weeks and how I was able to then climb up that mountain. And had I not visualized it, I'm not quite sure would I be so far on in my healing as what I am now Charlotte the um.
Speaker 1:Thank you for sharing all of that. The um it's exactly as I've talked about in a number of different episodes. This power of the mind, the power of your energy and the power of your visualization should, I think, people. Really, if you can invite yourself to take a moment to practice some of this, you will see for yourself Like Maria feels like she wouldn't have got where she was, where she is now, if she hadn't done this really potent visualization. Now it's not just looking at what it would be like looking at the mountain. You have to, like Maria's just said, you have to feel the feelings as if you are doing it. So feeling the rocks, hearing the sound of the cable car and everything else that went into that experience has reprogrammed Maria's mind because, exactly like she says, the mind doesn't know whether it's real or not. And the more you allow yourself to go into these powerful visualizations, I say to people if you're listening to this and you really want to change something every 90 minutes, you need to go into this visualization of whatever it is that you want to change, because you need to keep reminding your mind that, first of all, it's safe for you to change, because it's going to see it as more of a habit and that reminding yourself that whether, just because it's not in your reality right now, the mind doesn't know that bit, the mind just knows what you're going to feed it. So if you feed it with those visualizations, those feelings, which are way more potent the feelings is what you need, as well as the visuals and if you can bring in sense of smell, touch and everything like that, then you are harnessing the power of your energetic being as well as the power of your heart, because you bring in your emotions and as well as the power of your mind. So it's like mega, mega powerful, and maria has proved that.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about what you do now and how do you help people now. Do you help people one-to-one? Do you help people in programs? How is it that you help people now? Because I imagine there's people that go. I want to be able to do that, I want to know, I want to be in Maria's world. She's turned herself around. I want to. I've got that curiosity I've got. I want to change. I don't want to get, I want progressive health. In your words, there will be people listening that totally would love all that. So how do you work with people and how can people get hold of you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I work with people now one-to-one, though I'll be honest and say I don't take on too many people because I feel like I've got a lot of making up to do, as in time has been lost and you know, I spent years sick and this is the thing. There's no quick fix is there, and so and I will only take on people that are really ready to do this work, because I can't do it for them. I am, I'm a hope coach and I will accompany people and I see what's possible in them. But this change of belief and that we're up against a lot, charlotte, because we're told that you know, when you're given a diagnosis of MS, that it's progressive disease and progressive decline and you know it's. Yeah, we're up against a lot. And even when I had, you know, shared some hope to my neurologist, he laughed at me and he told me that. You know well, sadly, he actually swore at me and he got angry at me and he told me that you know well, sadly, he actually swore at me and he got angry at me because he had seen and witnessed so many people really sick with this disease and I ended up really, really sick too that he wasn't really encouraging it. So we're really he. He didn't want to give me false hope and I remember saying to him well, I hear what you're saying, but I don't believe you, um, and that's the thing. I've never believed that I would end up in a wheelchair. I've never believed that. And so therefore, you know, for those people that feel too, you know I can live well with MS, like there's no cure for it, but we can live well for it, that's the people I will happily accompany with and be an immense joy and pleasure. And a lot of people have said to me you know, um, you're, you're the first person I've ever spoken to that gets it, and to have that be said is beautiful because, you know, I feel it's been worth it all.
Speaker 2:And I do strongly feel that health begins with hope. But hope needs to be nurtured and it needs to be nourished. And the thing about hope is that we can quite easily quickly lose it. We can easily lose our hope by listening to advice or things that don't serve us well, and this is where we have to be crystal clear on what our why is, and this is what I work with with clients now. You know well how do you see your future self, you know, and then working on things that we can do today that their future self will thank them for, like I saw myself walking up that mountain. That was my goal. So I work with people one to one. I'm hoping to do a group program soon as well, because that way I can help more people. Because I am quite precious, you know, my time's precious to me now. I just want to climb as many mountains as I want and as I can, and the other way I think I'll be starting to I'll be able to reach more people is I'm currently writing my own book, so that's something I'm really happy about.
Speaker 2:I've recently just written a chapter in a book, in a book that's just been released. It's called Beating Multiple Sclerosis, and there's 37 people that have shared their lived experience and how they are living well, with the diagnosis focusing on progressive health and not disease. That's the thing I think. We have to be so careful what we say to ourselves every day, and you know what the narrative is Like. We have to change the narrative, like, if you don't want, to ourselves in every day.
Speaker 2:And you know what the narrative is like. We have to change the narrative like if you don't want to be in a wheelchair, then you know we have to make decisions to stay out of it and get to the root cause and that's where functional medicine comes in and there's no quick fix. Like I didn't just sit there on this seat at my kitchen table and visualize walking up the mountain. It was a lot more than that. You and I both know there's no quick fix. Yeah, and I've still got MS, but I'm living really well with it so thank you so, so much for sharing your journey and your story.
Speaker 1:It is so inspirational. You are so inspirational. You have navigated so many fears along the way that people who haven't had you know some people will never be able to understand because they have never been in that kind of situation. There will be people that have parallels of different kind of diagnosis where they feel like they're not necessarily they want to make the changes themselves. They know that there are differences. They know that they can make some lifestyle and health and nutrition and movement changes to allow them to feel a lot, lot better and different in their own skin. So the question that I always ask everybody is what is a book that you have read that has helped you either become fearless, or helped you with your mind, your energy, your action, or helped you in some way that you think is a great one for people to read?
Speaker 2:Well, without an ounce of a doubt, it has to be the Biology of Belief by Bruce Lipton. It changed my life and you know, it was during the time when I was struggling to walk. I went to see somebody for acupuncture and he suggested this book to me and I remember when I started reading it it was way over my head it was. You know, I didn't know anything about the anatomy or biology, I just knew nothing. So there was a lot of things I didn't understand. But there were some things I took from it that changed my life.
Speaker 2:And what comes to my mind is there was a part in that book where Bruce Lipton speaks about the placebo effect and the nacebo effect. And the placebo effect is a positive suggestion, which has a positive effect. Placebo effect is a positive suggestion, which has a positive effect, and the nacebo is a negative suggestion that has a negative effect. And I realized that day how important it was and I felt that there had been some nacebos that had been offered to me because it was a negative suggestion, like saying to me that I was only going to get sicker to me, as far as I was concerned, was negative and I didn't want to swallow that. And so the placebo was one for me and it just changed how I viewed the diagnosis of MS.
Speaker 2:There was also a time in that book where it mentions about this man that had esophagus cancer and he was given a couple of months to live, but he died within a couple of weeks and it was said, you know well, when they did the autopsy they realized there wasn't enough cancer in him to die from and they were like, well, what killed him? And he died with cancer and not from cancer. And that really changed everything for me, that the fact that he believed he was going to die was the reason he died, and just the power of our thoughts. And that changed everything for me and how. Every day, I have to be super careful how I think and what I say to myself, because my cells are listening to everything I say. I need to be more careful what I say to myself than what I say to other people.
Speaker 1:For certain, for certain, your cells are always listening, so sounds like a great book. Another one for me to put on my list, because I haven't read that one. Thank you so so much. I have loved, loved spending time with you and talking about your journey and reminding you of how fearless you are and how you have this incredible inner grit and resilience that ultimately, from my perspective, has saved your life, and how love, hope, health, well-being and happiness and visualization have allowed you to really be the powerful being that you are today. Mobilization have allowed you to really be the powerful being that you are today. So I thank you so so much for creating the time to spend with me today. I have loved, loved, loved having you on as a guest.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you, charlotte, and thank you for having such a positive impact on my life. I know we worked together for a while and some of the things that you have said to me were really meaningful and transformational at the time, but not just at the time. They've had long standing effects on how I live my life now. So, thank you. You were a part of that journey, so thank you you are so, so welcome.
Speaker 1:So everything that Maria has talked about how to get a hold of her will be in the show notes. Maria, if you could also send us the link for that book that you've mentioned, and then also the one that you've got the chapter in, and then also when your actual book comes out, and I will put that on the links as well. So exciting. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you, listeners. I'll see you on the next episode. Thank you, charlotte. Thank you for tuning into this week's episode. I hope that you're feeling energised, fearless and inspired to take action today to stand in your greatness. I share even more tools and resources on my I Dare to Leap email newsletter. By signing up, you not only get early access to the I Dare to Leap products and services, but you also get brand new podcast episodes delivered straight to your inbox every Monday, meaning you'll never miss your weekly dose of becoming fearless energy. Sign up now at wwwidaretoleapcom. Forward slash newsletter or click the link in the show notes below.
