Becoming Fearless
Welcome to Becoming Fearless, the personal growth podcast for YOU if you are ready to overcome fear and step into your greatness.
Our purpose is to help you overcome your limits and have loads of fun along the way, unlocking your fullest potential in life, business, health and relationships every single day.
I'm your host Charlotte Carter, a high performance coach and entrepreneur, with over 20 years experience. I've supported many highly driven talented people like you who dream big and are ready to take action to overcome what’s holding them back.
Each week my guests and I will be sharing hacks and habits on how to build self belief, courage and confidence to master your mindset and navigate your emotions - so that you reach your human potential in a way that feels light, fun and easeful and help you become fearless.
Let’s go!
Becoming Fearless
52. Balancing Pharmacology And Nutrition with Debbie Grayson
Discover the critical importance of balancing pharmacology with nutrition through the inspiring journey of Debbie, affectionately known as The Godmother Of Pharmacology. On this episode of Becoming Fearless, Debbie shares her unique path from being a pharmacist to becoming a nutritional therapist, fuelled by her commitment to helping patients transition off proton pump inhibitors — a medication with significant long-term risks. Learn how the tragic story of her sister Angela, who suffered from severe digestive issues and medication complications, became the catalyst for Debbie's mission to educate practitioners and patients about safer, more holistic health approaches.
Navigate the delicate balance between professional dedication and personal well-being as Debbie and I discuss the essential practice of setting clear boundaries to prevent burnout. Hear practical strategies for maintaining structured schedules, protecting personal time, and embracing guilt-free breaks to enhance overall well-being. We also explore the pivotal role of supportive teams and the value of pharmacology courses in shaping better healthcare practices. Whether you're an entrepreneur or a healthcare professional, this episode is packed with valuable insights for achieving personal growth and a fulfilling career. Tune in for an episode that promises to inspire and inform.
CONNECT WITH DEBBIE
Instagram: www.instagram.com/debbiegrayson57
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/deborah-grayson-03095996
Debbie's book recommendation: The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks
CONNECT WITH CHARLOTTE
Website: https://www.idaretoleap.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/charlotte_highperformancecoach
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/idaretoleap
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Welcome to Becoming Fearless, the personal growth podcast for you if you are ready to overcome fear and step into your greatness. Our purpose is to help you overcome your limits, have loads of fun along the way, unlocking your fullest potential in life, business, health and relationships every single day. I'm your host, charlotte Carter, a high performance coach and entrepreneur with over 20 years experience. I'm your host, charlotte Carter, a high-performance coach and entrepreneur with over 20 years experience. I've supported many highly driven, talented people like you who dream big and are ready to take action to overcome what's holding them back. Each week, my guests and I will be sharing hacks and habits on how to build self-belief, courage and confidence, to master your mindset and navigate your emotions so that you can reach your human potential in a way that feels light, fun and easeful and helps you become fearless. Let's go.
Speaker 1:Hello and welcome to another episode of Becoming Fearless. I am bringing this episode to you as a guest episode with the wonderful Debbie, who I think I met a fair few years ago now and we have remained in touch. We've made great friends and I wanted to invite Debbie on to talk about becoming fearless in a very different way, but also to share how she impacts the world with the work that she does. So, debbie, do you want to introduce yourself and just let people know a little bit about who you are, what you do?
Speaker 2:Thanks, charlotte. Yes, so I'm Debbie. My nickname is the godmother of pharmacology. I'm actually a pharmacist of 25 odd years and qualified as a nutritional therapist in 2015, so very much my work is around helping practitioners to work with clients taking medication safely, and I have quite a mission around patients taking proton pump inhibitors for heartburn inappropriately and helping them to come off it because it's quite a quite a problem with long-term use and stopping. So that's my sort of legacy piece, if you like and well, let's go straight in.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about why that is your legacy piece, because you have a wealth of experience, like you say, in the pharma ecology world. But there's also a personal part of the legacy piece, isn't there, as to why you do a part of what you do yeah, yeah, there very much is.
Speaker 2:So my younger sister suffered a damage injury to her vagus nerve during the surgical procedure for a thyroid problem, and what happened was she ended up not being able to digest her food because the vagus nerve controls the digestive system. So she was really struggling with digestive symptoms and the gps, not knowing what the problem was, just prescribed her a proton pump inhibitor, which we usually use for heartburn and indigestion, and because that affects the way the digestive system works, it was all. It was sort of like the final straw, if you like, to her digestive system and she ended up not being able to digest her food at all. So what she ended up doing was um smoking cannabis. She'd been a casual smoker in in a previous sort of iteration and she'd always found that that made her digestive systems generally better. So following this she she tried that and she found that if she smoked a cannabis cigarette before eating food, she wouldn't vomit it back, which is what she did on a on a regular basis. And after having done this for a number of years, she actually suffered a brain hemorrhage and um cannabis smokers are statistically less likely to support to survive um a brain hemorrhage issue and and she died instantly.
Speaker 2:Um, and it's. It's 12 years this month actually, since since that happened and at the time I hadn't realized what damage the proton pump inhibitor was doing to her digestion, and it was only after she died that I became more aware of the, the difficulties with digestion when you take a PPI, and and that sort of took me on a journey of learning sort of nutrition to make more of a difference to to patients taking medication and realizing the underlying damage they might be doing. And since qualifying I've sort of dedicated a lot of my time to helping people understand why they're not necessarily the answer in all cases and how to overcome the difficulty that you have coming off them, because there's a phenomena called rebound heartburn, which is where your symptoms are much worse than they were before you started, and a lot of people see that as a signal to stay on the medication. So it's almost like the oxycontin of the digestion world that once you're on it, it's really hard to come off it.
Speaker 1:And and that's that's where I come in, so that people don't end up in the situation that Angela did- there is um thank you for sharing that um very personal story and it was, you know, obviously a devastating time for you and your family. But it also prompted you at that time to do the nutritional, the nutritional training that you did, because I don't think you had it at that stage, did you? It was all about the pharmacy side of your business, so it kind of prompted that side of your. What you offer now and you going onto that path, wasn't it as to how they both work together to be able to help people in the way that you do now?
Speaker 2:yeah, absolutely it was. Once I'd realized I was just doing a random weekend course and once I'd realized how much damage they were doing to the nutritional status of the body, that led me to think more about what other drugs were doing. And, as they say, the rest is history. I sort of you know went off down on this path and and here I am larger than life sort of you know working in all aspects of looking at how medication interferes with with the body and how we can support that better and it is.
Speaker 1:I mean, you are such a knowledgeable person in this area. I don't know anyone else that has this kind of skill set. Do you do you? Are there other people around the world that do this kind of?
Speaker 2:thing. Yeah, I mean there are. There are more and more pharmacists um studying nutritional therapy and starting to make those those connections, I think. I think where I have a slightly different sort of skill set is I've got a bit of a photographic memory, so I have more than just a bit.
Speaker 2:I almost have one of those brains that just remembers everything it hears. So it it comes quite easily to me to think yeah, that's okay, that's doing this, that's doing the other, and I'm quite good diagnostically, so I can sort of look at somebody and go, right, this is your problem, this is what you need to do and this is how to solve it. So I do have quite a unique analytical brain which helps with that whole side of things.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about that. Let's talk about about you becoming fearless to be able to own that bit, because that is like a superpower you have, isn't it for certain, and it's something that's allowed you to build your memberships and why your students stay in your world, because they're like Debbie is the oracle of information and she can help me in a moment.
Speaker 2:Um, but there was some fear to be able to claim all of that wasn't there and get yourself on the path that you're on now oh yeah, I mean, there's been been lots of fear, there's that whole imposter syndrome, and I remember when I decided I was going to start my membership, I was like, all right, okay, if I'm going to be giving people advice and at the time it wasn't the animal that it is now I was sort of quite sort of narrow in what I was going to provide. But I was even sort of like, oh well, maybe I haven't got enough information, so I'm just going to book on this course and I'm going to book on that course so that I've got all of this knowledge and I've. One of the courses was about two thousand pound, never even opened it. It's like there was just no, no sort of time to do it. Um, but that was all that fear of what. If somebody asked me a question I can't answer, um, and will they think, you know, what am I paying this person for? And I do still chuckle that actually I still sat there and I haven't opened it and I probably never will open it, and and that's fine, but that's that whole never feeling that you're good enough, um, yeah, and and then I think the bigger one for me was actually being visible.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, not liking looking at myself in photos, not liking looking at myself on the screen. Um, I had lessons in how to do makeup for tv so that I could sort of help with that whole confidence side of things. And I think that lasted a whole fortnight because I'm very, very low maintenance and it's like do you know what? I can't be getting up an hour early every day just to be putting on my war paint. Um, and my members were like deb, we're not looking at your face, we're here for your brain. It's like okay, and and I think I've over time just naturally learned not to look at myself on the screen and to focus on the people, other people on the call. But I think I actually got an all right with how I look as well. I've, you know, had branding photos done and I've been a lot more visible and it's it's sort of acknowledging that it doesn't matter what you look like.
Speaker 1:People are there for for you and who you are, and and sort of getting confidence in that way and I think that was um a massive part of kind of being able to be the person that you are today. This, this fear of visibility that you overcome and fear of acceptance, and that peace around people wanting to hear and listen and learn from you and you could be fully made up or you could be like sitting in your dry rub, none of it matters, but for everybody that's in that space, for some people this feeling is really strong and it stops them and I think what you've done is you've been able to find your place, as to how it feels for you, and now you're.
Speaker 1:You just rock up and do your thing in a very different way. It doesn't even enter your mind, but I remember, um, you know there's. It was a real fear at times yeah, it absolutely was.
Speaker 2:And I think people had been asking me to take my pharmacology course online for years because I was never in the right location on the right day and people wanted to do it online. And I'm like, oh no, I'm never going on Zoom um. But then, of course, the pandemic hit and we all had no choice but to go on Zoom um and I remember the sort of nightmare that my pharmacy career turned into at that point and it's like, do you know what, if this is, if this is what my career is going to look like, now's the time to to get out um. And that did take quite a step.
Speaker 2:I procrastinated for quite a while, thinking, you know, will anybody want it? How much do I charge for it? You know what's it going to look like? And I remember it being sort of six weeks from starting my memberships to me handing in my notice and sort of like the whole fear. And you know how long it took me to actually sort of remove myself from that situation completely, sort of clinging on by my fingertips. And I'm still just about clinging on by my fingertips. I have two more months of regulatory work and then I'm not allowed to do my hearings anymore. And then there's that whole discussion of do I stay on the register or do I come off. So there's another you know another milestone looming there, I think.
Speaker 1:That's another big milestone, and I think it was always that kind of dance between building your business, building the memberships, which we'll talk about in a little while and then having that side of the business while also having such a huge, strong, sustainable reputation in the pharmacy in some level. And there was all of that connection. There was all of that people needing you and it was all of that push-pull piece like where do you sit? And I know, gradually it has dwindled, shall we say, over time, over months, for you to be able to put your full self into what you do now, and that is definitely a massive milestone in a couple of months for you. So let's talk about how you help people now, because you've overcome all those fears, fears of visibility, which I'm sure some of your clients have. And how do you? What are the offers that you have for people now, so that if people are either in this space, um, how can you help them?
Speaker 2:so I have. I have a number of memberships. I obviously my practitioner and student membership, which very much look at the clinical side of things, with quite a lot around that feeling of being worthy with the knowledge that you've got, so helping people to realize that they have the skills that their patients, their clients, need and that actually confidence comes from putting it into practice and not doing more and more courses. So just having me there, knowing that I've got their back, being able to sort of ask me questions four days a week on Zoom and then every day of the week in the Facebook group, and just knowing that I'm there cheering them on is is quite good. And then I also now have a business membership where we look more around that sort of visibility and that confidence and very much around sort of like the imposter syndrome side of things and and how to get out of your own way and and a lot of that I've learned from you, obviously, charlotte, as from the time that we spent together of how to do that.
Speaker 2:And I think probably the biggest thing I got from you is protecting boundaries, and I'm really good now with my boundaries. I could still be better, but I'm I'm pretty good, um, but I'm also really good at helping others with their boundaries, because I see the pitfalls I fell into, and certainly with newly qualified practitioners it's it's nice to be able to sort of stop them falling into that trap before they get into it, because it's hard to pull it back once you've lost it yeah, let's talk about boundaries, but first of all let's just clarify, so people listening.
Speaker 1:This is for people who are training to be nutritional therapists. Is that what those memberships training to be nutritional therapists? Is that what those memberships training to be a nutritional therapist?
Speaker 2:Either training or having qualified and just wanting support with their businesses going forwards.
Speaker 1:Okay, brilliant.
Speaker 1:So if anybody's listening that's in those camps. Definitely get in touch with Debbie. Her details will be under the podcast notes. So let's talk about boundaries. Yeah, I hope you will touch upon this.
Speaker 1:So this was something that no-transcript is that they've had this pattern of not feeling good enough, which 87% of entrepreneurs have, and when you have that, the kind of, one of the behaviours from it is to overgive and over deliver. So it's quite common that you have, then loose or flaky boundaries, and I know there were times where you and I talked about your boundaries being pretty um, loose, should we say, and you were, you know, at the beck and call of everyone because you wanted to help them and you were building a business, and I get that piece. But, like you say, with the people that you help, now, if you get into that mindset of actually you're going to help them more by being really crystal clear on when you're available, when you're not, what it is that you can help with and what it is that you can't, then you start to drive your energy in a very different way, don't you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you absolutely do, and I think you were very diplomatic with your phrasing of my boundaries. I think I'll be quite honest and say they were shocking, if not non-existent, and I think it was very much about you know, these people are paying me for a service. I want to help them and you know I was on Zoom sort of loads and loads of times and I was giving, you know, separate Zooms for the practitioner membership to the student membership and I'd literally my day would be be full of Zooms. I'm not saying that my day isn't equally full of Zooms now because I've got various courses that I'm sort of rolling out and running. But what I have done is I've protected my time better. So I do combine the Facebook group first thing in the morning to answer any questions and then that's me done. I'm not on Zoom, I'm not in the Facebook group and I'm either working on my business or I'm actually just out having fun. So it really does just depend what what I'm doing.
Speaker 2:And I've I've sort of taken that one step further for the summer in that I'm actually having Tuesdays and Thursdays, so that again, I know, I knew you'd like that, I knew you'd like that, um, so. So that's. That's quite nice and that's worked out quite nicely, because my mum's 80 this year, um, and my niece is 14, and we're going on a chocolate making workshop on one of the thursdays because it's my mum's birthday that day. So she's really chuffed, um, you know, because it was finding something that she'd enjoy that she could do sitting down, um, so we've we've booked a chocolate workshop, so that should be. That should be quite nice. I'm tempted to take some rum and make some rum truffles. They're my guilty pleasure, so we're making truffles they are.
Speaker 1:They are. Remember that. And let's just touch on that for a moment, because I think there's a piece that's a thread with a lot of people that I see in the high performance space, where they are, you know, one of the high achievers. They want to help a lot of people. There's this piece with boundaries, but there's also this piece with pleasure and happiness, where there's like, well, I've got to have earned it or I've got to put the effort, I've got to have really grafted to be able to earn all of this, all of this time off, or I can't possibly just take a random afternoon off.
Speaker 1:And it's actually when you flip that and when you realize that actually part of why you're doing it is to have the flexibility of having a business, but also you're not doing it to not live as well. That's part of the journey and I remember your mum and your niece in particular were big parts of your why you wanted to be able to craft a business that was able to dip in and out when you were needed, dip in and out when you chose, and that's what you've been able to do. But I remember there was like a little bit of resistance with that. But so I absolutely am celebrating Thursday's time out and then even more of the Tuesday and Thursday. Honestly, I love that with so, so much, because, as you and I know, tomorrow's not guaranteed.
Speaker 1:It's about creating the balance, isn't it? The balance of happiness, joy and pleasure and spending time with those that you love whilst creating a successful business. That gives you that drive, that, um, inner satisfaction that I think sometimes you don't get in a different way. When you've got that drive, that inner satisfaction with the business is something quite unique, isn't it?
Speaker 2:it is, and I think it's taken me a long time to get here and it's it's actually sort of not having the guilt about not not doing something that maybe need you feel that you should be doing, and and not being sort of stuck with that nine to five. And obviously, ian, my husband he works with me in the business as well, um, and quite often he'll also say to him have you, have you done this, have you done that? And it'll be something for him. And you're like no, I've not got time. And it's like, but you work for yourself, or actually you work for me, but it's still working for yourself and it's, it's one of those, it's, it's, it's fine, you don't have to start work at eight o'clock in the morning. If you want to do some something, um, that's good for your well-being, then start work at 10, it's. You know, you're the master of your destiny.
Speaker 1:You're not on the clock anymore and I think for a lot of people, a lot of people I'm talking to who are looking to come out of corporate and that kind of thing, this piece is a is a challenge, isn't it? Because it's like a societal programming that we're going to be up early, we're going to go and do whatever we're going to do, we're going to start work and we're going to burn the candle both ends and we're going to try and fit everything possible in and then we're going to like, have fun all weekend. Then we're going to roll it out again nine till five monday to friday, or, more more likely, seven till ten monday to friday. And I think this flexibility and I have this a lot with people when they're saying, well, should I work weekends? And I'm like, well, work when you want.
Speaker 1:You decide when you want. If you're better doing something every single day for the rest of your life, then do that. If you're better working three long days and then having long days, then do that. Find out what your rhythm is, which is what you've done, hasn't it? You found your rhythm where there's no guilt, there's no shame, there's no excuses, and you just stand strong in them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and I think when I do sort of go outside of those times it's because I've chosen to do it for whatever reason.
Speaker 2:But I try not to do it for the majority of the time, but obviously sometimes things happen, people need you, something might kick off or whatever.
Speaker 2:But by and large I am getting quite good that that boundary time and having that time for me, and the other one that I'm still sort of battling with is the sort of disconnection from Facebook and sort of not being on it as much, because I'm obviously all my.
Speaker 2:All my practitioner members pop questions in Facebook and I'd be there every time one popped up, and what I've tried to do now is I'll go in first thing in the morning and answer them all, and then I might pop in later on in the evening to just pick up the rest, but then during the day I'm not in there, I'm not scrolling, and from a headspace perspective that's huge, because if you're answering every time one pops up, you're sort of constantly going down the list, whereas if you just wait for them all to come in, it's one job then to go dink, dink, dink, dink, dink, rather than sort of being in there all the time, and I think that's still a work in progress, because I still have that tendency in an evening when I'm sat watching TV or whatever, to sort of pick up my phone. Ian keeps threatening to get a phone safe and not give me the combination um, because I think that's, that's the next sort of boundary piece, but it's one of them. You can't fix all your boundaries in one go.
Speaker 1:you've got to you can't and I think you've got to keep what, um, what feels good for you. But I think that's a great point in the people who are running businesses, um, that have got it like a community aspect wherever they're holding it. It's what are your boundaries of? When are you going to go in there? And I know some people are really strict with that. But I think sometimes with the work that you do and the work that I do, there's an element of some people might suddenly have something that actually there is an element of you answering. It is going to help them move through where they are quicker.
Speaker 1:So there's always going to be that piece and I get that and I always say take it with a pinch of salt. If you can do, if you can wean yourself off two evenings when you don't, when you don't do any of that, then just start there, because it's part of who you are and it's not necessarily all the time. If you could time block it and say, ok, I'm just going to look between eight and quarter past eight and that's it. Then I'm not going to look. It's what I see people having. Is that scroll, isn't it?
Speaker 2:I'm going to look and before I know it I'm still there at half ten at night. Yeah, and I'm quite lucky because my VA is quite good at holding my boundaries for me. If people email, she's like no, debbie doesn't do that. If you want an answer, this is what you need to do. Or if she sees a post in the facebook group that she thinks is truly urgent. So if somebody's upset or somebody's got a, a medical sort of urgent query, then she'll message me and say you know, there is one question in the facebook group that you might want to answer, and that works really well that's so good.
Speaker 1:So good, isn't it that you've found somebody that's basically well. Hopefully, all of your support has got you back. But somebody like that, that's like, here you are, you're not doing this, but this one you need to heads up.
Speaker 2:That's great, really great support that you've got and really great that you've received that support. Yeah, she's an excellent gatekeeper. She really is brilliant.
Speaker 1:I love it. I'd love to meet her. I'll be able to say these are the next pieces that are they're on the journey. Try and get to not do this. That would be great. I'm so glad you've got somebody like that. That's got your back, because that is so, so good. Um, what are the programs that you have? Because I know you have courses as well. So for people who who are um wanting to learn from your knowledge, I know there's these two memberships, but what are they? You've got a wealth of courses. Are they all on your website?
Speaker 2:yeah, they are. They are all on my website. So I have a number of pharmacology courses. I have four, four sort of um full courses, if you like. So I've got my basic pharmacology course, which is like my bread and butter, the one that I always teach live um. We've got quite, quite large amounts of humor in, including conversations about pampas grass and, if you know, you know um. And then I have three advanced courses looking at immune health, brain health and female health. And then my sort of flagship, if you like, is my new course, which is my managing reflux um course, which is more of an accreditation. So with that I'm training practitioners in how to support patients with coming off their medication and how how to sort of manage the digestive process if they can't come off their medication. And then I have a um a website where all of my practitioners that complete the accreditation are listed so that patients can come and find um a practitioner knowing that they've got the skill set and the the the appropriate knowledge to help them with that and work collaboratively with their, with their doctor.
Speaker 2:So that's been a big, a big piece for me. It started life as a um, a rewrite of my low price ppi course, and it's become. It's become quite an animal and quite an entity. Um, but I, I really, I really like where that's going and the the impact that my practitioners practitioners are having. They're starting to talk to gps about what they can do, they're starting to work with patients. We're seeing some amazing results and and that is really all around sort of like that legacy to to Angela. So I've, I've spoken at a couple of conferences, I've had some journal articles published and I'm I'm working my way up to having um some more pr. So, um, my, my mother-in-law wants to see me on bbc breakfast. Um, jillian, my va wants to see me on this morning and my, my holy grail no offense, charlotte, but my holy grail podcast is to be on dr chatterjee's podcast.
Speaker 1:Um, I want to see you on that one.
Speaker 2:I want to hear you on that that's, that's my, that's my dream and I know that I obviously need. I'm quite famous, infamous in the nutrition world, but I'm obviously not quite there from a sort of general public perspective. And that's my my goal for the next six months, which, considering how much I didn't want to be visible, is huge. It's massive. Yeah, so there is a bit of an ongoing campaign on Dr Chatterjee's Facebook group to get me on as a, as a speaker, I think it's I. I'm number three on his engagement page the other week, um, because everybody keeps putting my name out and stuff. So I would love, I would absolutely love that that's like the pinnacle of my year, if I manage and you will totally get that.
Speaker 1:You will totally get that because look at what you've achieved already and the things that you wanted to do. That you were fearful and you've done time and time and time again, and I love the fact that your legacy is now in the form of actually you're seeing and hearing and impacting your students, who are talking to people who have conditions that were similar to Angela, and their ripple effect of all your education is getting out into the world.
Speaker 2:I absolutely love that and I am so, so proud of you yeah, when I spoke at, I spoke at a medical conference and there was a doctor there who was a surgeon but he was a gastric and neurosurgeon and he was working with people that had the same issue that Angela has, which is called gastroparesis, where her food just wasn't moving through, and he came to me after my talk and said that it was the best, his favourite talk of the day and that he was never going to give those medications to people like Angela ever again. And you know, if that was the only thing I achieved this year, that is huge this year.
Speaker 1:That is huge. That's massive, isn't it? I hope, yes, has he got a podcast?
Speaker 2:you need to start you need to get in talking with him?
Speaker 1:yeah, I don't think he does actually see if, see if there's ways to get into him.
Speaker 2:Um, because he's like one of your biggest cheerleaders and obviously has a huge reputation himself yeah, so that was watch this space that was a highlight of my day actually, you know and so it should be a highlight of your life on some levels.
Speaker 1:One of the highlights isn't it when you hear somebody say I'm going to change what I've been doing for maybe years because of the information you've shared. It's that's transformational in all the people that he shows up and all the people that he helps. I want you to receive that. That's huge. So I could talk. I feel like there's like going to be another episode with Debbie next year when she's like I've been on Chatter Tease, I've been on all the podcasts and now I'm at the next level and now this is my next thing. I feel like we are only just getting going.
Speaker 2:Let's make it a date. Let's do that.
Speaker 1:All of the details to get hold of Debbie will be in the show notes, so have a look there. But the last question that I want to ask Debbie, that I ask all of my guests, is what is a book that has impacted your life so far in terms of how you show up or who you are, or how you impact people?
Speaker 2:I think for me it's got to be the big leap. I know, when we were working together, I remember as I was approaching sort of like the VAT threshold and I remember us having a conversation about how I'd realized I was going to have to sort out VAT and I wasn't ready to play in the big leagues and sort out all of the the sort of paperwork that comes with that. So I took all of my offerings off my website so that nobody could buy anything, so that I could buy myself some time. And, having read the big leak, now realize that that was just that sort of like upper limit and that once I'd gone through that upper limit, that that opened up a whole new sort of way of thinking about it and working with it. And it still makes me chuckle thinking back and looking at that now how, how, that sort of that was the next step.
Speaker 2:And I think throughout that journey, I think you've been so instrumental in that. You know from the early days of Debbie, you need to be charging more for this than what you're doing and, debbie, you need to be combining these zooms together so that you're not doing all of this and I think, just all of the, all of the support I got whilst working with you has definitely sort of sculpted and molded where I am now and what I do and how I show up, and I can't thank you enough for that you are so, so welcome, and that's the beautiful thing about all works, isn't it?
Speaker 1:it's the ripple effect, and now you're teaching people what you've learned, embodied yourself, so I love that. So, hey, next episode 12 months time, let's see where Debbie is. Take care, take care of yourself, and thank you so, so much for being on the podcast. I really, really appreciate your time and I hope you have a fabulous, fabulous day making your rum truffles with your mum and your niece, because that's like a really precious time, and so I hope you enjoy that too.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Charlotte. Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1:You're welcome, take care and tune into the next episode. Thank you for tuning into this week's episode. I hope that you're feeling energized, fearless and inspired to take action today, to stand in your greatness. I share even more tools and resources on my I Dare to Leap email newsletter. By signing up, you not only get early access to the I Dare to Leap products and services, but you also get brand new podcast episodes delivered straight to your inbox every Monday, meaning you'll never miss your weekly dose of Becoming Fearless energy. Sign up now at wwwidaretoleapcom. Forward slash newsletter or click the link in the show notes below.
