107. All Killer, No Filler: Passion, Writing & The Hook Book with Sam Johnson

This week, I'm joined by copywriter and founder of The Hook Book, Sam Johnson.

Sam spent nearly 30 years in corporate jobs before discovering that writing was his true calling, sparked by one person asking: "Who wrote that?" 

We talk about creativity, finding your flow, the very real fear of the blank page, and how Sam built a business that turns entrepreneurs into published authors in just eight weeks with an hour of their time.

If you've been sitting on a book idea, you're going to want to listen to this.

CONNECT WITH SAM:

Website: www.thehookbookofficial.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehookbookofficial

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Transcript

Why Short Books Beat Fear

SPEAKER_00 0:00

People have a great thought of writing a book, but are intimidated by that blank page with someone telling them I need 60,000 words by end of next month or whatever it may be. To take that kind of intimidation and that fear away is a really um a really big thing.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

And I've hand selected these guests. I've not just gone at anybody want to come on. I have picked people who I know will bring a story to you, who will bring a different dynamic, who will bring a different perspective, but ultimately will bring a whole load of humour as well. Because the energy of success is all about individual journeys. So the expert that I'm sharing with you today is an expert in his field, and I will let him introduce himself and let you know a little bit more about him. So welcome, welcome, welcome, Sam. I'm excited that you're on here. Tell my listeners a bit about you.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Yeah, thanks for having me. Um, I'm a bit concerned that you said that it has to be humorous, so I feel I have to be funny now, which is a bit like a pressure, but I'll I'll roll with that. Um, my name's Sam Johnson. I am a copywriter for the last nine or ten years. Uh, I've worked with hundreds of clients. I've ghostwritten a Sunday Times best-selling book, and I now uh run my own business called The Hookbook, where I make books of five to ten thousand words for entrepreneurs that can be read in less than an hour to work as a funnel, to work as a business card, to work as a kind of audience growth tool, really. And that's yeah, that's me.

From Corporate Work To Copywriting

SPEAKER_01 1:57

So, and you are funny, because I do know you're in real life, so let's just stop that pretense. Um, so let's talk about pre-10 years ago. So, who were you? What were you doing pre-10 years ago? Because if 10 years you've been a copywriter, what were you doing before? Kind of like to let the listeners know a little bit about that backstory.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

That's a great question, actually, because um I spent now, 56, 46, so probably the best part of 30 years working in generic, boring corporate jobs that uh didn't really like my fire, but we're okay, you know, paid the bills. Um, and uh I always had a dream I had this list of three things that I wanted to be was a footballer, a rock star, or a writer. And um I tried and failed at the first two with a mixture of success and failure, but fun along the way. And then when I um met my current wife, Lisa, we've been together for 13 years, just over now, she started her own business and I started writing for her. And it was then about 10 years in, yeah, about 10 years ago, when I wrote something for her. Someone went, Who wrote that? And she said, Oh, my husband Sam did it. And so she said, Can she do something for me then? And Lisa was kind of said, Well, I suppose he could. And then at that point, I thought, oh, okay, I might be able to actually make make this a goer. So um, yeah, long story short, lots of years doing boring jobs, met someone who had a bit entrepreneurial mind, started their business, I wrote for them, and then it's just kind of grown from there. So I am extremely grateful, really, to just be able to write stuff every day, you know. What what a joy, what a privilege, what a what a pleasure to have.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

I know you are incredibly fortunate in loads of ways, aren't you? And also incredibly talented. So let's just talk about the actual writing piece because lots of people might have these dreams, you know, might have the dream of being a footballer, a rock star. Classic 70s dream, some people might have them. Um but a lot of people, a huge amount of people, will have a desire to write something of their own, to have that skill, have that creativity, because for some reason they haven't been able to tap into it. Is this kind of like something that you've always had, this creativity? Was it in your boring corporate jobs, or was it something that's kind of like evolved as you've been given the gift and the opportunities? Has it evolved?

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Yeah, both really. Uh I've always been quite a create, I was quite a creative kid. I would write short stories. Um, I formed a band when I was like 17 and wrote all the songs for that. So I was always writing songs, always writing stories, little poems and stuff. So there was always that in me. I'm terrible at maths, terrible at science. Yeah. I like more creative stuff. Um, but I think it has probably grown over the years because as people, I think we learn, we develop, we absorb, and that all becomes part of what we write about. I mean, if you're a 10-year-old trying to write a story, you've got 10 years worth of anecdotal evidence to put into your story. If you're a 56-year-old man, you you've got a lot more. You might not remember it all, but you've got a lot more that you can you can put in there. So I think it's a combination of both. Um, I've always been creative, I've always wanted to write, and I did try and shoehorn it into my corporate jobs. I had one boss who I used to knock on his door and he would say, Yes, I'm just write it. It's fine, um, without me even mentioning what it was because he knew that I I wanted to write something for a newsletter or or something to uh to our customers. So yeah, it's a bit of a combination of both, I'd say.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Um, would you say it's um so if we're getting into the energy, so would you say you're in your ultimate flow when you're writing? Does it feel super easy? Do you feel like that you're guided as to what you're gonna write, or do you feel like you are still quite intellectual in it?

SPEAKER_00 5:55

It's quite woo-ish, that question, isn't it? It's bordering on the woo.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

I'm waiting to see what you say.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

You know me, you know what I like, I'm quite pragmatic kind of.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

I know, that's why I'm waiting for the answer.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

I wouldn't say it's like uh in the f in the flow to a point. Here's the point. When I write, I'm terrible old school typist, I use like three fingers at most, right? And I have to stare at the keyboard. I can't look at the screen, not a chance, so I'm staring at the keyboard. Now, what I would say, as far as in the flow that I get, is I can't stop it if it's in my head. That's partly because I'm quite old and I forget stuff and I don't want to miss that, that kind of moment of inspiration. But quite often when I look up at the screen, three cores of it is underlined in red because I've spelt it wrong. And then I have to then go back and try and remember what I meant to say in the first place. But I'd rather do it that way than pause and lose it. Um sometimes your passion leads you if I'm not in something that I truly believe in, then it'll flow. Um, but I work with a lot of different people. I work with accountants, I work with uh everything you can think of, and obviously their passion isn't my passion, so I think it's a different process with that. But as a copywriter, part of the role is you have to understand your client's voice, you have to understand what makes them tick. Um so uh in the flow to a point, um, but always with an end goal. Um, but the best writing is the writing you don't really have to think about. If you're a sportsman or anyone in place for football, golf, anything, when you hit the ball perfectly, you don't even feel you've hit it. And it's much like that when you're writing, you don't even really know you're doing it, it just it just gets there.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

And so are you more in the let's get everything out of my head without looking at the screen? Let's get everything out of my head and then let's uh reflect back on it.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Yeah, I I do. Um I like to get it down, and then I'll have to rejig it. And and I think sometimes in this world of AI, we all write a bit like AI these days because it it's working both ways. We see stuff that's written that way, so it impacts our writing. And of course, AI has created a style that's based on the way people write these days. That's why it's done it, and that's why the lines are really, really blurred. Um, I have no issue with AI as a tool, uh, but don't use it as the be all and end all of what you're writing. So uh yeah, I I I do think that there's a a place for for it, but not not at the expense of everything else.

The 30 Day Business Challenge

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Well, I think this is where your business, we'll talk about your business in a minute, but I think this is where your business comes in because you're bringing the human into the business. And I know a lot of the work that I do and a lot of the people that we know collectively, this really this is really, really important, massively important, because the humans are getting lost, and it's that the human is what's leading everything that they're doing. So let's talk a little bit about the hookbook. Let's talk about how it was born.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Yeah, well, there's a story. You probably you would know there's a story behind that. So my wife, Lisa, Lisa Johnson, she had this idea for a TV show, and this TV show was to prove that anyone could go from nothing to making their first sale in less than 30 days. Uh the caveat was that this this person had to be a very non-entrepreneurial person, which was me, because that's not who I am. And so we did this and we filmed it live over 30 days, um, even to the point I had to shave my beard off at the beginning, uh, to prove that it was chronological, that we hadn't just popped in and gone, oh, we've had a sale. Um, so then the question arose, what what do I make this business about? Um, and we kind of chucked it about a bit, and we kind of knew that that passion generally drives profit. Um, so what what was I passionate about? Football, darts, uh whiskey, music. These were the things that came up. And we've kind of yeah, probably not. I don't know. Lisa being Lisa was very uh forthright in her opinions. And then we got on to uh writing, which is sort of what I did anyway, obviously. And and we were like, well, okay. And I said, well, I'd like to be more creative with what I do rather than copywriting if we're doing something. And then we had a remembrance of this guy we'd met in Canada who was making small books. Um, these were fiction books, as it happens, not business books, but so we kind of were inspired by him because I mean books have been around for thousands of years, you can't really copyright a book, you know, it's some paper with words on it. So we um so we had this idea could we write business books that were five to ten thousand words long, that could be read in less than an hour, that wouldn't need much of the third person's uh time to create these books. I would have an interview with them, I would transcribe it, and then I would write the book. Um, which seemed to tick a lot of boxes because entrepreneurs are often very time staffed, they often have some short attention spans as well, because they're they're creative people. So if we gave them something that they could read in less than an hour, um we thought this would probably be a winner, and that that's what we went with. And then the the TV show sort of documented my my journey, uh going through from nothing, drinking lots of tea, uh being generally a bit of a class clown, um, because that's kind of my role, um, and then actually having to do it and nothing to do some live stuff on social media and all this kind of stuff like I'm doing now, which whilst on I could chat probably wouldn't be at the top of my um to-do list. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

So when uh throughout that journey, because I know it was an experience, did you you know the listeners are keen? Did you make a sale within the 30 days? Well, I mean, they can watch it, they can they can go on YouTube on the impact of all of the links for to get hold of Sam and this so you can watch it will be given as well. So awesome, yeah.

The Hookbook Offer Explained

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Um but yes, we did. I don't no spoiler alert. We did. And it was and it do you know what was beautiful about it? Because total honesty here, there were certain scenes that the guys filmed that said, right, you need to go in and say to Lisa, I'm struggling with this, I can't do it. But this first sale scene was absolutely perfectly unscripted and really happened. And Terry, who works for Lisa, actually had the computer open and then started making really bizarre, sort of squeaky noises of excitement. Um, so then the lads with the cameras had to come running in and film her. Um, and then we had champagne and McDonald's for our lunch on that date to celebrate. Which kind of sums up the way we are in this kind of in my in my world really. It's a bit of a balance going on there. So, yes, it did happen. Uh, and now I'm 14 clients in since November, which is yeah, I'm pretty happy.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

So let's talk about what it's like been like since what it's been like with those clients. Where did they come from? Those ones that have jumped in, and what was the thing that they why did they buy from you, Sam? What was that what was the hook in to you?

SPEAKER_00 13:07

You sound so shocked that anyone would um Yeah, why? Why would they buy from you?

SPEAKER_01 13:13

Um What was the hook in, Sam?

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Uh I think there were a few elements to it. People have a great thought of writing a book, but are intimidated by that blank page with someone telling them I need 60,000 words by the end of next month or whatever it may be. Uh, to take that kind of intimidation and that fear away is a really um a really big thing. So I think most of the people that came at the beginning were like, even in the future, if I do want to write my full-size, big, thick book, this I can get done in a couple of months and get it out there. And even that could be a funnel for my big book. Or, you know, so there's plenty of ways you can use it. Um, and I think that's what people first off were interested in. There were the people that had been sitting on their own idea for ages and really knew what they wanted their book to be, but just hadn't got around to it and didn't have the time, but could find an hour for me to have a chat with them and then I write it. Um, and then I think there were just people who felt that perhaps it could this was something different, you know, it was just a different way of doing it, that had been working on their visibility and their marketing and their positioning, and this was just a different way uh to do that. And and I'm you know a bit old school, and I I remember giving out business cards, and I sort of see it a bit like that that well, you you give them out as if it's a business card. Um, so I I think that's probably the the three the three main reasons that people got involved.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

So, one of the reasons that I think, because I know there's people that are in your space that will come and invest with you, definitely. One of the things that I believe is A, you're really talented at what you do, but the speed that you can turn this around for people for high performers. High performers who I speak with, they're like, you know, they want everything done like last week, and they have shed loads of things that they want to do, and the books are always on there. But the speed, like you say, an hour of their time, and then within a few months, they've got this asset that is physical that then they can take to wherever they're going, they can add in, they can post to anybody that's interested, they can use as a funnel in loads of different ways, and it's the kickstart for a much bigger book. Do you have another offer that you can help people write a bigger book?

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Not at the moment. Um, a couple of people have asked, um, but I'm focusing on growing this business and getting this. If I get this to a point where I then have the time, I can rethink how I provide this business, then I may do it. But at the moment, I think because this is such a unique offer that I I want to focus on that and not sort of dilute it. Um I did write Lisa's for her, um, which was a challenge. You know, 60, 65,000 words, that's a lot of words, you know. Um, and so I understand why people are intimidated by it. I like to quote a title of an album by a band that I really like, which is um All Killer, No Filler, and I think that's what the hookbooks are, you know. Just get your best stuff, just get the cream off the top, um, and that's what we'll we'll put in.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

I love it. So the people that have invested in you and the many more to come, what's their feedback? What are the things that they love about it, Sam?

SPEAKER_00 16:21

Uh I think you touched on the speed and the efficiency of it. Um, and I've learned on the way, don't get me wrong, I've made some mistakes and some I could have done things quicker, I could have done things more efficiently, but uh, I think that's that's just learning as a as a as a business owner. Um but I think it's the speed, it's the fact that really they only need to give me an hour of their time. But I always caveat that by saying, look, I may have to get back in touch if I don't understand something, we may have to add a bit in, but really it's about an hour. And then what I find is the only time we sometimes do get a hold up is when they're sent the first draft, and then they have to read it and appraise it. And that that's the the time that that can take the time because I think once it's back in their court, they can sort of overthink and over-analyse. Um, but overall, we're doing start to finish eight weeks from from interview to printed. So um uh and I and there's not really any the only reason for a delay on that would be if if a client you know something happened in their life or they they just said that I want to just put it on hold for a while, which has happened, which is fine. Um, but overall, yeah, yeah, eight weeks is is realistic. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

And what happens, which is really quick, what happens about the whole cover design?

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Oh, we often we do so we have a professional graphic designer um and she creates three cover designs. This is one of the mistakes I made actually at the beginning. I said in the T's and C's, I said we create your cover design, and I think I ended up doing about 15 for somebody because uh it didn't say how many we would offer. And hands up, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Yeah, learning, I'm still learning.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

So now it says uh three three cover designs. And if they don't if they're not massively keen, I mean we will get all of their colour palettes, we'll get colour things they hate, we'll get things they like, we'll get all of their corporate um logos and everything, and we'll get all of that so we will have the best possible chance of getting it right. But if they don't like any of the three, then there is no problem at all, they can design their own or get someone to design it for them. So that's absolutely fine. But we will create three and they get three rounds of amends on the copy, um, and it's all proofread, and and then we print up a hundred books, nice shiny books, and get them delivered to their doorstep.

Structure, Confidence And Marketing Yourself

SPEAKER_01 18:29

Epic. I mean, such a good service. So, what have you learned? Two things I want to touch on next, just before we wrap up. What have you learned about yourself in the process? Because the energy of success podcast is about successful people, which is so multi-layered, but really it's about what's the person learnt about themselves in what it is that they've come to talk to me about. So, what have you learnt that you didn't know? I mean, I'm sure you knew lots about yourself, like you say, because you are 56, and when you're in your 50s, you know you're quite wise. But what did you learn about yourself that you really didn't know before?

SPEAKER_00 19:05

I learned that I actually don't mind a bit of structure, um which I would never have uh accepted before. I know, and you know me a bit, Charlotte, and obviously uh chill. I laid back kind of sound bit like David Brent there, but I I'm I'm I'm you know not overly formatted and formulaic in what I do. I like a bit of freedom, but I suppose I've learned if I am doing this on my own, which I am now really, um, I need to have some kind of organisation in place. Um, so that's the biggest learning I've I I've taken from from before. Um, what I have kind of reiterated and understood, and now I've learned, let's say it is a learning, I know I've learned that I really need to work on it is I need to get out there more, I need to be promoting more, I need to be marketing more. Um I thrive on positive affirmations, and um I want people to say, oh, this is great, this is great. I don't deal very well with people saying it's not very good. Not that I've had that kind of level of complaint, but I have people saying a couple of times, I think this is written by AI, it isn't written by AI. Um, and and I I struggle with stuff like that a little bit, and I'm working on that because it's never going to be plain sailing when it when it's me in the in the hot seat. So I think they're they're the sort of two. One I sort of knew and one I didn't know at all. And they're probably the two things that I've I've come across since I've started.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

So for all the creatives that I have listening all over the world, Sam has just said that actually he wants a little, you know, he does benefit from a little bit of structure, which I think is super valuable for people who are navigating success, especially when you're creative, especially when you're in spaces like copywriting, because your desire and your passion is in that freedom of the language and the words and the tonality and everything like that. And so the structure within what you're doing and within what you're producing, for you to lean into that has been massively, massively positive. But I am gonna ask one more question. But first of all, I'm gonna talk about Sam as a human. For people that don't know Sam, um, he is like one of the most laid-back people I've met, but he's also one of the most considerate, kind of caring people that I've met in a very uh the people might not pick up on this with him. So he may be like the class clown, he may be that kind of person, but I would absolutely put my life on the fact that if he listens to what you're saying, he will then transmute what you're saying. He will then absolutely understand you as a person, what it is that you're passionate about, and be able to navigate that and put it in these books, like the people who have bought from him and continue to buy from him. So, like I say, everyone can find out more about Sam's business and the whole um little script, how he went from Having no beard and everything on that journey, which is quite funny. Um, and the other thing I want to talk about is well, two things. One is, do you now see yourself as an entrepreneur?

SPEAKER_00 22:11

No, I still I still can't, I haven't quite got that far yet. Uh I I I always feel a bit of a fraud. And as I've been told numerous times by wiser people than me, there's no such thing as imposter theory, it's just people have been doing it longer than you theory, uh, and I accept that. So I I still don't really know. I I don't think of myself as an entrepreneur. It's nice to get paid, um, although I've also had a rude awakening about this country's tax uh system, which obviously, as someone who's all only ever been paid a wage, I wasn't really aware of before. Yeah. So that that's not the greatest, but not yet, but I'm working on it.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

So do you see yourself as like just like dabbling? Is this just a sideline?

SPEAKER_00 22:54

I have just gone beyond dabbling. Good. And there's a stretch towards being an entrepreneur, there's a gap there. Um uh I don't know what would be that gap. Uh probably when I earn enough to have to pay that. That might be the point where I go.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Okay. Oh, there you go. Maybe actually another word for it is being an expert. Do you see yourself as an expert?

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Yes, but always to a point. I do now because of course there are people doing what I do. Like I said earlier, you're never going to be able to create something, it's a book. But I think perhaps the way I'm doing it is is what makes it unique and different to everybody else's. It's the time required, it's the time required to beat it, it's the cost, it you know, all of that stuff wrapped up in one thing, I think, is what makes the difference.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

What makes the difference is it's you, Sam. It's one of the people, thanks very much.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

I don't know if that's a good difference or a bad difference, but uh it's what people are buying into, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 23:50

They're buying into you, but the other thing is the whole service. Yeah. So taking a pressure that somebody's got and you're just running with it, it takes it out. As a high performer, the high performers, they a big part of your audience. The high achievers that I have as clients, they want things, you know, like I've said, gone quick, but you take everything out. All they have to do is an hour and then pick the cover.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

And then read it, read it, but they're pretty much trust you, they'll skim read it because that's that's that's why it the service works, because it is to be read within an hour. So, really, two hours, and they're done.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

Yeah, yeah, that's that's the concept, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Do you talk about that, Sam?

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Yeah, I do. I do.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

A bit more, maybe a bit more.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

You're probably right. You're not the first to say it, but I'm getting I am getting there.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Well, you're on here, aren't you, which is clear.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

Yeah, that's quite a big deal for me.

Building A Business Beside Lisa

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Yeah, it is a massive win. Um, and so now I just want to touch briefly on your fabulous wife, Lisa, because there will be people listening who know that you're married to Lisa, and I want to talk about what that dynamic has been like. Just in a in a you setting up this business, uh, obviously having a wife who's wildly successful. A lot of people know her, she's like top of a game at what she does.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Yeah, she is, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

What's this been like for you? What's this been like? Has she felt like she's watching over you? I know that she's found some bits interesting.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Toughest bit is the difference in our work ethic and the way our brains work. Like to a point where she will say one thing, which is just proper, like smashes out the park everything everyone else has thought of, and expects everyone else's brains to work at that speed. And you've worked with her before, Charlotte, you know what she's like. She has a brain unlike any other uh when it comes to slicing through the crap to get to what really matters. Um, and that's been the toughest bit, but let me be honest, she's been an amazing support, and and you know, who else has someone like that in their locker? You know, it's so it um, but she also, again, has been pretty hands-off with it. I think she said, You're not a kid, you know, you gotta you come out and do this yourself. So that is what's happened. But it's been a good balance. We've worked together a long time, we understand the the kind of way that should work, and and we have our own spaces and we do our own things. Um, so uh it's been overall, it's been fantastic. She mows at me for drinking tea. She I think that that documentary just brought to light how much tea I actually drink. I don't think she really knew. Um, and she thinks she thought I was just putting it on for the cameras. I genuinely wasn't, I would be lost without my tea. Um, but there's what else addictions you could have, right?

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Of course, of course. And I love the fact that um this has been a journey for you. Um, like just from a spark of idea, because Lisa's brain is phenomenal. I have a huge amount of love and respect for her, as you know. Her brain is phenomenal, it works at speeds that people can't comprehend. Um, and for her to be able to step back, I'm like doing, you know, a hell yes, for Lisa to be able to step back and let you do it, and you be able to step into the space and go, okay, I'm gonna learn this, has been phenomenal. But I love the dynamic between the two of you. But I want people to really see that this is you as a venture on your own. This is not you as Lisa's husband. This is Sam on it as his standalone, um, and with his own talents, with his own way of learning, with your own growth.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

It is. I think that's important.

unknown 27:14

Yeah.

Passion As The Success Engine

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Anything else that you want to share about the energy of success? Is there anything that you think that about the energy? Do you feel like you've got your passion, your motivation, or some better?

SPEAKER_00 27:23

It's passion is at the heart of everything if you want to be successful. And I that's about as as woo as I'll ever get, right? But um, I mentioned my three, I mentioned the Rockstar football and writing thing. They were my three big passions. They're still quite high in my passion list now, to be honest, just for my own benefit. Um, and I think I if someone had said, oh, you've got to, I don't know, make a business making frames for pictures. I even if it had been the best idea in the world, I wouldn't have had a passion for that, because it's it's not it doesn't fire me up. Whereas this does fire me up. So um undeniably follow your passion if you can, find a way to do it. Doesn't have to make you money, but if you can follow it at some some way in your life, then I think you're gonna be in a much better place.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Well, it it it's if you follow your passion from my perspective, it every life just gets easier. You get opportunities come to you, you're a much happier, healthier person and version of yourself, and so it's like win-win, isn't it? But there's still time for you to be this famous footballer, and there's still time for you to be the rock star. Who knows?

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Well, I think the football might be done, but I I never give up on the rock star thing.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

Yeah, you're still a rock star in your own head, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Absolutely, yeah. Just haven't got the hair for it. But other than that, I'm all there, yeah.

Where To Find Sam Online

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Thank you so, so much for being on the podcast and getting a little bit more visible. Let people know how they can get hold of you, Sam. What's the best way? What's best?

SPEAKER_00 28:47

Best ways on Instagram, the Hookbook Official. Um, if you go on there, there's a nice little link tree on there that will take you to the to my website and to the link for the TV show and all that stuff. So get yourself an Insta, that's 100% Hookbook Official.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

And all the details to get hold of Sam, like the website and everything else that he's um going to share with me, will be at the bottom of the podcast episode so you can see them there. Um, but thank you so much. This has been an interesting one. I think anybody who's thinking about sitting on a book, especially the people that are in my audience, don't sit on any longer. Just have a conversation with Sam. He'll be really honest if you're in the right place. He'll be really honest with you, um, whether it's a go or not. And he will take it off your hands and produce it to your door within eight weeks.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Love it. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you very much for having me.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

Thank you.